tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post3801541467427871696..comments2023-11-03T01:10:26.496-07:00Comments on LNC Region 7: LNC Region 7http://www.blogger.com/profile/16798688774223002602noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-43784544175655196172008-09-17T16:38:00.000-07:002008-09-17T16:38:00.000-07:00I said "When civil disobedience hurts others,...I said "When civil disobedience hurts others, I am absolutely against it. It's a form of aggression.<BR/> <BR/>I said “Sitting on the sidewalk, starving yourself, with a sign is harmless. Blocking freeway traffic in rush hour is not (a recent occurrence here). In that case, it was obvious - ambulances couldn't get through."<BR/><BR/>While the acts may not be violent - as I explained, this non-violent demonstration was most definitely an act of aggression. <BR/> <BR/>"Anti-war protesters temporarily shut down WA-520<BR/><BR/>Police arrested about a half-dozen anti-war protesters who blocked the Washington 520 bridge across Lake Washington during the morning commute today."<BR/> <BR/>While in your world, blocking a bridge may be "civil disobedience", here it's most definitely aggression. Traffic came to a *dead stop* for more than 30 min during rush hour. It took more than 3 hours for normal traffic patterns to resume. Being held hostage in traffic because some somebody "wants to send a message" is also an initiation of force, IMNHO. <BR/> <BR/>And if you don't think that blocking our bridges is aggression, this "uncivil" act kept an ambulance from getting to the Trauma Center. It takes an extra 40 min or so to go around the top of the lake.<BR/><BR/>http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20030218&slug=webprotest18<BR/><BR/>"Critical Mass is a group of cyclists that takes to the streets the last Friday of every month to promote cyclists' right to the road." <BR/> <BR/>Sounds peaceful, until you see them block roads, hem people in for 10 min. or more, and then react violently when the blocked drivers attempt to get out, or go around. <BR/>http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072508WAB_car_vs_cyclists_KC.262be9a.html<BR/>Blocking people is aggression, IMNHO. Someone blocking the way is holding other people hostage.<BR/><BR/>And as to whether you read or not, George – LPWA.com1@gmail.com = LNCRegion7 = Rachel Hawkridge. None of it is hidden. And you continue to be fairly abrasive here, then email me questions over there. And you missed the explanation I included in the first comment on “civil disobedience”. I don’t know any other explanation.<BR/> <BR/>This is civil http://tinyurl.com/4na5gn and so is ""I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions...If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourselves, man, woman, and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them." Ghandhi<BR/> <BR/>Blocking bridges, or filling the streets with bikes is <BR/><I>not</I>.LNC Region 7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16798688774223002602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-6492651519449719652008-09-17T10:04:00.000-07:002008-09-17T10:04:00.000-07:00I did not "edit" your words. You said:"When civil ...I did not "edit" your words. You said:<BR/><BR/>"When civil disobedience hurts others, I am absolutely against it. It's a form of aggression."<BR/><BR/>Civil disobedience, by definition, is nonviolent. Therefore, it can never hurt others. IOW, civil disobedience is not an initiation of force.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, either you are saying that civil disobedience is a form of a aggression, or what you are saying is muddled and needs clarification in order to be understood the way you apparently now want it to be understood. <BR/><BR/>My quote of your words was accurate.<BR/><BR/>I have been entirely honest and civil in my comments here.<BR/><BR/>Implying that I am unable to read and that I have not been honest and civil, on the other hand, is most certainly lacking in civility, if not honesty.George Donnellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984579502979682678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-37145400290739736262008-09-17T09:52:00.000-07:002008-09-17T09:52:00.000-07:00No, George, your editing of my words is blatantly ...No, George, your editing of my words is blatantly false.<BR/> <BR/>And anyone who can read can see it.<BR/> <BR/>Remember, next time you post here, that honesty and civility are important.<BR/> <BR/>And editing my words, in order to change the meaning, is neither.<BR/> <BR/>Have a gentle day . . . :o)LNC Region 7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16798688774223002602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-46995408626938279922008-09-11T19:06:00.000-07:002008-09-11T19:06:00.000-07:00I am surprised that a member of the LNC does not k...I am surprised that a member of the LNC does not know what civil disobedience is.<BR/><BR/>"Civil disobedience ... is a form of aggression."<BR/><BR/>This is blatantly false.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience<BR/><BR/>Civil disobedience is the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government, or of an occupying power, without resorting to physical violence. It is one of the primary tactics of nonviolent resistance. In its most nonviolent form (known as ahimsa or satyagraha) it could be said that it is compassion in the form of respectful disagreement.George Donnellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984579502979682678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-65380152703090083682008-09-11T16:16:00.000-07:002008-09-11T16:16:00.000-07:00When civil disobedience hurts others, I am absolut...When civil disobedience hurts others, I am absolutely against it. It's a form of aggression.<BR/> <BR/>Sitting on the sidewalk, starving yourself, with a sign is harmless. Blocking freeway traffic in rush hour is not (a recent occurence here). In that case, it was obvious - ambulances couldn't get through.<BR/> <BR/>We also had WTO riots a few years ago. Those animals thought they were doing the right thing with civil disobedience. They shut down the city, hurt people physically and financially. Innocent people. Major aggression.<BR/> <BR/>So, George, go forth and have a gentle day.LNC Region 7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16798688774223002602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-76208201603185024072008-09-10T16:30:00.000-07:002008-09-10T16:30:00.000-07:00> What strategy are we going to use to win this...> What strategy are we going to use to win this election?<BR/><BR/>What elections does the LNC run or plot strategy for?<BR/><BR/>You mention lawsuit as the rationale for vii but that is already covered under i.<BR/><BR/>> George, do you conduct all your business meeting on the internet?<BR/><BR/>My businesses are not non-profit political organizations. The rules are different for a political party. <BR/><BR/>Transparency in government is one of the things we're fighting for isn't it? If so, how can we be credible activists for that value if we don't practice it ourselves?<BR/><BR/>> Changing things within the rules is what works best; long term, and easiest. Breaking the rules tends to shift the focus from the "wrongness" of the rules to the wrongness of the breech of rules.<BR/><BR/>I take it you're not a fan of civil disobedience then.George Donnellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984579502979682678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-19697823686082808492008-09-10T12:48:00.000-07:002008-09-10T12:48:00.000-07:00First - this is my opinion. I didn't write it, so...First - this is my opinion. I didn't write it, so I don't know intent of writers . . .<BR/><BR/><BR/>*v. Board self-evaluation*<BR/><BR/>It's much easier and better to do critique of both our own, and our fellow members' actions in a safe place. <BR/><BR/>Some of that might be public latter, but saying "Rachel, your little stunt with the ice cream and the airplane was just over the damn top" might not help make good intercommittee relationships, or inter/outer relationships.<BR/><BR/>*vi. Strategic issues (only those requiring confidentiality)*<BR/> <BR/>What strategy are we going to use to win this election? You don't see the importance of a little hush? (I'm going to use a little Ransberger Pivot maneuver in debates. Now opponent runs out and researches Ransberger, and out pivots me.)<BR/><BR/>*vii. Negotiations (potential, pending, or past)*<BR/><BR/>How are we going to win this lawsuit, or defend ourselves against this suit?<BR/> <BR/>George, do you conduct all your business meeting on the internet? The LNC is the business of the LP.<BR/> <BR/>And the courage to break the rules - when we object, in any part of our lives, to the rules, it is best and most effective to try to change the rules from within the rules. If that doesn't work, or if it is an emergency, then breaking the rules might be the only option.<BR/> <BR/>We've all seen how well it works to change drug laws by just breaking them, huh?<BR/><BR/>Changing things within the rules is what works best; long term, and easiest. Breaking the rules tends to shift the focus from the "wrongness" of the rules to the wrongness of the breech of rules.LNC Region 7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16798688774223002602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-643396405930558520.post-13360302624444057522008-09-09T15:51:00.000-07:002008-09-09T15:51:00.000-07:00What is the rationale for this one exactly?v. Boar...What is the rationale for this one exactly?<BR/><BR/>v. Board self-evaluation<BR/><BR/>This seems circular. What determines which issues are strategic and which of those are confidential?<BR/><BR/>vi. Strategic issues (only those requiring confidentiality)<BR/><BR/>This strikes me as overly broad:<BR/><BR/>vii. Negotiations (potential, pending, or past)<BR/><BR/>What about the courage to break the rules when convictions dictate it?George Donnellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984579502979682678noreply@blogger.com